Mechanized Assault & eXploration Reloaded » Talk » [MAXR] PCX format

Murk	Oct 17, 2012 7:55 pm
Subject: Re: PCX format > PNG format If you are going to add a new texture format, why png and not dds? But as long as everything goes smoothly, it doesn't really matter.

beko	Oct 18, 2012 4:54 pm
Subject: Re: PCX format > PNG format Quote by Toranaga: Hello icexuck, But about integrating... I'm not so much into this topic, but I think it will be a no-go to include graphics files that are very much based on the original MAX graphics files into the maxr package. We have the free graphics set, that is created completely from scratch. The res-installer is only a tool, that gives owners of the original MAX the possibility to use the original graphics. But we don't deliver the original graphics. If you now changed the original pcx to enhanced png files, we probably won't be able to include these in any package downloadable from this website/project. But what about this (wild) idea: You only make a layer on top of the original graphics, that probably will use transparency heavily. I think we could distribute these top-layer-png-files. For the free graphics set they won't be of any use, but for the players that use the original graphics, it could be a great enhancement (that could be turned on in the preferences for example). What do you think? And beko, what do you think? I totally go along with your opinion and idea. Also changing to PNG will be a hell of work. Almost anything in the client's drawing code evolved around pcx and is pretty ugly. Not even talking about the resinstaller what is basically also drawing pcxs and writing pcxs. It's also totally time that someone digs into this since our drawing code is slow as well and burns cpu and memory. To sum it up: There be dragons. Edit: Hi Murk and welcome on the forum. What the hell is dds and what basic c++ library goes along with it even on Amiga?

beko

Oct 18, 2012 4:54 pm

Subject: Re: PCX format > PNG format

Quote by Toranaga:

Hello icexuck,
But about integrating... I'm not so much into this topic, but I think it will be a no-go to include graphics files that are very much based on the original MAX graphics files into the maxr package. We have the free graphics set, that is created completely from scratch. The res-installer is only a tool, that gives owners of the original MAX the possibility to use the original graphics. But we don't deliver the original graphics. If you now changed the original pcx to enhanced png files, we probably won't be able to include these in any package downloadable from this website/project.

But what about this (wild) idea: You only make a layer on top of the original graphics, that probably will use transparency heavily. I think we could distribute these top-layer-png-files. For the free graphics set they won't be of any use, but for the players that use the original graphics, it could be a great enhancement (that could be turned on in the preferences for example).

What do you think? And beko, what do you think?

I totally go along with your opinion and idea.

Also changing to PNG will be a hell of work. Almost anything in the client's drawing code evolved around pcx and is pretty ugly. Not even talking about the resinstaller what is basically also drawing pcxs and writing pcxs. It's also totally time that someone digs into this since our drawing code is slow as well and burns cpu and memory.

To sum it up: There be dragons.

Edit: Hi Murk and welcome on the forum. What the hell is dds and what basic c++ library goes along with it even on Amiga?

icexuck	Oct 18, 2012 6:20 pm
Subject: Re: PCX format > PNG format Ideas and dragons! Woah! I'm not that advanced, but i do know other games use this image-format. (like the SpringRTS (3D) engine) DDS has something to do with multi-functionality, speed and compression as far as i know. Video cards can make use of this format in a better way and saves memory and improves speed. And, i did make some .DDS files once, there are easy ways to export from Photoshop. So, it kinda sounds like a good thing to go for, especially after you talking about the game now "burning cpu and memory" But i'm no coder, nor a hi-tech graphic/DDS/mipmap/bumpmap/shader dude - i can make things look good and have some (but very limited) insight in texturing and 3D-modeling.

icexuck

Oct 18, 2012 6:20 pm

Subject: Re: PCX format > PNG format

Ideas and dragons! Woah!

I'm not that advanced, but i do know other games use this image-format. (like the SpringRTS (3D) engine)
DDS has something to do with multi-functionality, speed and compression as far as i know.
Video cards can make use of this format in a better way and saves memory and improves speed.
And, i did make some .DDS files once, there are easy ways to export from Photoshop.
So, it kinda sounds like a good thing to go for, especially after you talking about the game now "burning cpu and memory"
But i'm no coder, nor a hi-tech graphic/DDS/mipmap/bumpmap/shader dude - i can make things look good and have some (but very limited) insight in texturing and 3D-modeling.

beko	Oct 18, 2012 8:21 pm
Subject: Re: PCX format > PNG format > (but very limited) insight in texturing and 3D-modeling. That's about how all the rendering stuff in maxr was made. Mostly by me. No idea what I was doing there but the result is.. fair.

beko

Oct 18, 2012 8:21 pm

Subject: Re: PCX format > PNG format

> (but very limited) insight in texturing and 3D-modeling.

That's about how all the rendering stuff in maxr was made. Mostly by me. No idea what I was doing there but the result is.. fair.

Murk	Oct 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Subject: Re: PCX format > PNG format Yeah, dds is a format designed with textures in mind. While pngs and the others take 24 or 32 or whatever bits per pixel in the memory despite being compressed, dds takes only as much memory as the filesize is. And AFAIK doesn't require additional computations on the gpu side other formats do. It also supports mipmap system[The file can contain smaller versions of the texture which could be useful for zoom outs]. It uses S3TC compression algorith. However, unfortunately, I don't know everything on the topic and I am not the coder, so I can't help on this side[unless you can wait 5 years or so :P]. I found this linked on the wiki, if you find this helpful. DDS should be supported on DX7 and OpenGL 1 I believe.

Murk

Oct 18, 2012 8:30 pm

Subject: Re: PCX format > PNG format

Yeah, dds is a format designed with textures in mind. While pngs and the others take 24 or 32 or whatever bits per pixel in the memory despite being compressed, dds takes only as much memory as the filesize is. And AFAIK doesn't require additional computations on the gpu side other formats do. It also supports mipmap system[The file can contain smaller versions of the texture which could be useful for zoom outs]. It uses S3TC compression algorith. However, unfortunately, I don't know everything on the topic and I am not the coder, so I can't help on this side[unless you can wait 5 years or so :P]. I found this linked on the wiki, if you find this helpful.
DDS should be supported on DX7 and OpenGL 1 I believe.

beko	Oct 18, 2012 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: PCX format > PNG format OpenGL would be the way, since DirectX is Windows only and this I can not agree to. I'm considering OpenGL for quite some time now especially since this would make acceleration possible on devices like Pads or Smartphones. It's however also a complete new field we've next to no experience with.

beko

Oct 18, 2012 8:36 pm

Subject: Re: PCX format > PNG format

OpenGL would be the way, since DirectX is Windows only and this I can not agree to.

I'm considering OpenGL for quite some time now especially since this would make acceleration possible on devices like Pads or Smartphones. It's however also a complete new field we've next to no experience with.

ness	Oct 19, 2012 2:40 pm
Subject: Re: PCX format > PNG format Just to throw another idea : why not rewrite using Qt (http://qt-project.org/) to replace the SDL ? The new Qt5 version coming end of 2012 would come with openGL ES2 as a standard, provides huge and varied framework (from GUI to networking, and a lot more). Qt aim is "code once, deploy everywhere". As for now you have a lot of target plateform available including but not limited to : Windows, Linux, Mac, Symbian (Nokia), Meego Harmattan (Nokia), Blackberry playbook and new blackberry OS10 (native), as well as ports to Android and IOS. Those two mobile (Android and IOS) should be officially supported soon, as a consequence of Nokia selling out Qt.

ness

Oct 19, 2012 2:40 pm

Subject: Re: PCX format > PNG format

Just to throw another idea : why not rewrite using Qt (http://qt-project.org/) to replace the SDL ?

The new Qt5 version coming end of 2012 would come with openGL ES2 as a standard, provides huge and varied framework (from GUI to networking, and a lot more). Qt aim is "code once, deploy everywhere". As for now you have a lot of target plateform available including but not limited to : Windows, Linux, Mac, Symbian (Nokia), Meego Harmattan (Nokia), Blackberry playbook and new blackberry OS10 (native), as well as ports to Android and IOS. Those two mobile (Android and IOS) should be officially supported soon, as a consequence of Nokia selling out Qt.